Steve Koepfer, American Sambo Association President
Interview with CST Magazine



SK:  I've been doing martial arts or related disciplines for most of my life. I first started years ago as a child with Shotokan, which only lasted only for a year or so.  Even though it was short lived, it served a significant purpose as it planted the seed of training in me.  It was a cool time for martial arts back then in the 70s.  Like every other kid, I had my Bruce Lee posters on the bedroom wall (along with Ali and Rocky!) and was hooked on Saturday morning kung-fu theater.  Kickboxing was getting lots of television coverage and it seemed karate tournaments were everywhere.  After Shotokan, I did not return to martial arts until college, but what happened in between was also key to my "martial" development.

My mother was a devout Buddhist and yoga practitioner.  I spent much of my childhood and adolescence practicing yoga and learning meditation.  I went on a few retreats to various ashrams and attended teachings by various teachers such as Tich Naht Hahn as well as some Lamas in Nepal.  Those practices have stayed with me.  While I have never taken any formal precepts as a Buddhist, I consider myself a devout Buddhist.  This has greatly influenced my martial arts and life.  I found that the mindfulness gained from yoga and meditation gave me a distinct advantage when I did return to martial arts in the 1980s.  My education as a massage therapist, graduate education in psychology, and 15 year practice as a counselor have also contributed greatly to my skills as a coach as well. 

Like many people, geography was the main reason for my choice of schools when I decided to come back to martial arts. I started with a Tea Kwon Do school near my home and stayed with them for six years. I did many TKD tournaments back then and was nationally rated in the NASKA point karate circuit.  Those years were lots of fun and I learned a lot but, I eventually realized that I needed to move on.  This was around the time of the first UFC. Though I had wanted to leave TKD before the UFC was launched, the UFC pushed me out the door. I knew I needed something more practical.

On my next stop I began training Lama Kung Fu and San Shou at New York Kung Fu and Kickboxing.  It was quite a difference from TKD. The school was more practical minded than most Kung Fu schools I had checked out. They actually fought there - it was not all forms and technique.  The school was just forming it's first fight team and I jumped on board immediately.  What a wake-up call after point karate!  In all honesty, everyone was new to hard fighting and we essentially jumped in the deep end.  We would train at Gleason's Gym and just kick the crap out of each other and anyone else there who wanted to train (laughing). Man, there were so many injuries!  While the coaching was not top notch, I did learn to fight from the constant ring time and sparring.  I "earned my wings" so to speak.  I stayed with NYKK for almost 6 years. Those were good years and lots of good friends were made - many of whom began to train Sambo with me as well. I gained my first MMA and grappling experience and became a medallist in the 1997 United World San Shou Tournament during those years.  But, like TKD, I knew that I would not progress and evolve if I stayed there.  The grappling offered there was not as advanced as I wanted and my fight training was not progressing the way I felt it could.  They had also all but abandoned the Kung Fu program so, I really felt the need to move to another coach.

Around that time a friend told me about a Russian coach, Alexander Barakov, who had started teaching at a local school.  According to my friend, I would not regret checking out his Combat Sambo class.  At that time all I knew about Sambo was that Oleg Taktarov from the UFC practiced it.  I had taken a seminar with Oleg once; with Gokor Chivichian as well. That was about the extent of my Sambo experience.  In any event, in early 1999, I went down to watch a Sambo class under the man would become my coach, friend and most influential teacher I have trained with. 

Alexander Barakov, or Alex as he preferred to be called by his students, is an incredible and enigmatic man.  He embodies everything a true martial artist should be...humble, calm, compassionate, creative, intelligent, and of course, he is a great fighter with great character.  I recall my first training session with him.  I walked into the school feeling pretty tough and experienced.  I guess my ego was too big at the time.  I remember during that class Alex made an announcement to the group (it was small group of 3 or 4 at that time) that I was some experienced fighter and that he and I would spar a bit in a friendly way.  Well, it was after this 60 year old man wiped the mat with me that I knew I should lose the ego and train with him! From that point on, Combat Sambo became a daily regimen for me - it still is.  It has really given me the foundation from which to excel and bring all my prior training to a meaningful place. We never trained Sport Sambo. It was always Combat Sambo. As a former spetsnaz, that is all Alex really cared about.  In 2003 Alex moved back to St. Petersburg, Russia and I took over running the New York Combat Sambo program.  Since that time the program has evolved quite a bit. We have about 70 students now. I am very proud of the school and my students. I am so thankful for what Alex gave me.  I still talk to him regularly and miss him tremendously.


SK:  Well, my only consistent experience has been with Combat Sambo so, I can't quite answer this question in the way I think you mean it.  However, I have cross trained with Sport Sambo, Systema, ROSS, Kadachnikov, and RMAX folks here in the US and Eastern Europe.  What I can tell you is that the Combat Sambo I was taught by Alex, or at least how I was taught, has been generally more aggressive than the Systema, ROSS, Kadachnikov I have trained with.  Regarding many of the Sport Sambo guys I have worked with, I have often found the opposite to be true. There has been lots of hard aggression but, not enough softness. This is not to say that the fundamental principles are different in any of them - because they generally are not. 

For example, a very good friend and student of mine, Bao Tran, is a CST practitioner and he has excelled in the hard training we do. His CST foundation - what many might consider soft - lent very well to the type of movement based fighting we do. I find that it is a matter of where the accent lies in one approach or another.  I have rarely seen, in the NY area anyway, Systema training as rigorous as what I went through with Combat Sambo or the way I teach.  In fact, for me, Systema can tend to fall too far on the theoretical side of the spectrum.  I don't see much of the hard training against resistance that is crucial to development of practical skill.  For me, when things get too theoretical, one can lose sight of the visceral.  Again, I don't think theoretical study is inappropriate and I do know there are hard style Systema guys out there, it is simply a matter of accent or focus and depends greatly on how a person learns and processes information. 

I had an opportunity to train for a time with Alex Kostic's Systema group in Serbia.  Mr. Kostic is one of Vladimir Vasiliev's oldest students and often runs Vasiliev's Canada school when not in Serbia.  In Serbia, I found the balance between hard and soft that I prefer.  Likewise, he really appreciated my approach to Combat Sambo which he considered very "Spiridonovian" - as opposed to the more Judo oriented "Oschepkov" lineage of Sambo.  In the end, for me, it all comes down to an individualized balance between hard, soft, aggressive, passive, sneaky, overt, psychic, physical, emotional, etc.  Combat Sambo as I was taught is a fluid, improvisational, motion based art that must be soft enough to be sensitive to the nuances of one's opponent, while being hard and fast enough to end things quickly and decisively.  My teacher used to say "your Sambo is yours and mine is mine - they are not the same".


SK:  With all the politics in the Sambo world, I ask myself this question all the time (laughing)!  Seriously though, Alex Barakov and I started the association because we wanted an apolitical group that would support the art and it's practitioners in a way that honored the athletes and system.  We wanted to stay clear of the politics that afflict the Sambo community and did not want to be an "exclusive club".  Basically, if you love Sambo you can be part of a group who shares the same love.  We did, and still don't, strive to be a governing body.  We want to be more of a professional guild.  We don't offer ranks, curriculum, distance training, or anything like the certification programs one sees in the host or organizations out there. We believe that these things can foster elitist attitudes, can weaken the art, and can further divide our already fractured community.  Of course we do offer seminars but, they only lead to further education of the attendees.  We offer tournaments but, they are not exclusive to ASA members.  We definitely help our members promote themselves.  Sambo was born of diversity and we feel that only by honoring diversity will our art grow and prosper.  We honor all the Sambo groups out there and will work with any of them - as long as we feel it is in the best interests of the athletes and art.  The Unity Classic which we co-sponsored with the USSA is an example of our ideals in action.


SK:  Well, growth can be defined in many ways.  If by "growth" you mean the size and scope of our group, we have really grown quite a bit.  We have members in eleven states and three countries outside the United States.  We have delivered on many of the promises made whenwe founded the association. By this I mean DVD production, creating a monthly newsletter, promoting tournaments, hosting charity fundraisers, offering seminars, etc.  In the end however, I really consider these secondary to the more important goal of cross-organizational projects and promoting Sambo. 

One thing I feel most proud of is how we have helped put Sambo back on the map in the United States.  Of course this was not a unilateral effort and I don't mean this in an arrogant way because Sambo has always been on the map - it was just a bit smudged and hiding due to old political baggage.  Folks like Oleg Taktarov, Andrei Arlovski, and Fyodor Emilianenko help promote the sport tremendously but, they are so outside the proximity of helping everyday folks in the US get more info about Sambo.  Inasmuch, we have endeavored to collaborate with other non-Sambo martial arts groups such as the United States Kick Boxing Association, Mas Oyama Karate, the Graden State Karate Games, Grappler's Quest, and of course RMAX.  We have also written for Grappling and Bodyguard magazines and I keep a regular presence on the main on-line forums like MMA.TV.  We co-sponsor the Battle of Brooklyn fight cards with showcase Freestyle Sambo, Muay Thai, and San Da on the same card at world famous Gleason's Gym.  Efforts like these are critical if we are to get the word out about Sambo.  We have tried to put Sambo in places where we can build new interested audiences. 

Finally, I really feel our biggest achievement has been our ability to get people in the US Sambo world talking with each other again; building bridges in the community.  Three years ago I don't think that people would have thought there would be a chance in hell that the existing US Sambo orgs would have been open to the idea of working together again but, now they are.  Honestly, there is a very along way to go, but people are at least talking.  At our North American Freestyle Sambo Championships tournament we had USSA, AASF, USASU, Judo, BJJ, and other grappling practitioners all rolling together on one mat. It has been great!  Maybe our greatest offering was just saying that we would be the middle man and we will work with anyone who loves Sambo more than politics.

There have been many challenges in this endeavor as you might suspect.  Most are not worth discussing as it is old news at this point. In the end, they were all basically rooted in our having to establish ourselves, our credibility and good intentions.  There were many ruffled feathers and threats in the beginning.  Our website was even sabotaged at one point.  In the end though, I feel our good intentions and openness won the day.  We are now working with most of the people who tried to divert our course early on.


SK:  The creation of the Freestyle Sambo (TM) rules was intended to help fulfill the goal of introducing Sambo to non-Sambo audiences - to help spread Sambo in the United States.  The main differences between the Freestyle Sambo rules we developed and traditional Sport Sambo rules is the full range of techniques that are allowed and the fact that we have two experience divisions.  We are trying to make Sambo more inviting and intriguing to an American audience.  In the US, there are so many grappling venues like NAGA, Grappler's Quest, Jujitsu, Judo, and MMA events that Sambo has to compete with. Sport Sambo rules are often not appealing to people who train for other types of events which allow a wider variety of technique.  For example, in traditional Sport Sambo chokes, neck cranks, cross faces, slamming, closed guard, and twisting locks are not allowed. In A division Freestyle Sambo and elite tournament Freestyle Sambo they are.  We also got rid of the hold down rule so the match would progress faster, would be more practical, and more exciting for spectators.  Hold downs often create unfortunate and unrealistic pauses in the fluidity of a fight.  As a competitor I can understand the usefulness of hold downs but, for spectators, it can be very boring.  A third difference is the "total victory" score. In Sport Sambo one can win with a "total victory" if a perfect throw is executed.  We got rid of this rule as well.  If an athlete is thrown and can still fight, why end the match? The idea is to fight until you can't fight - just as in life. We attempted to maintain Sambo's focus on throwing and limited ground time.  We also kept the uniform requirements.  Freestyle Sambo is a great middle ground between Sport and Combat Sambo competition.  Our first two annual tournaments were very successful with competitors from many different arts competing.

I had hoped that a new set of rules would help spread Sambo - the art - by inviting more people into the sport from other arts.  Lets face it... Sport Sambo has been in the US wrestling community for decades and it was not until UFC and PRIDE that folks outside that community began to take notice. Why? Because people saw something new used successfully against different styles under rules that didn't favor anyone in particular. But in all honesty, the favorable TV coverage that Sambo gets from PRIDE and UFC is not enough to spread the art among the average martial art practitioner.  TV alone was not able to get people out and into the already existing Sambo schools in this country or put significant coverage in the popular magazines. TV will bring about an awareness of Sambo but, what then? There needed to be an attractive inclusive forum for the amateur grappler; for the non-elite athlete.  This is what Freestyle Sambo tries to offer - without sacrificing Sambo's flavor.


SK:  Freestyle Sambo is very different than Combat Sambo in that there are no strikes in Freestyle Sambo.  Combat Sambo rules have never been standardized but, it is essentially MMA in a kurkta.


SK:  Well, ASA is just a group. We don't advocate any particular curriculum or outlook over another.  As far as I am concerned however, I agree with Scott in that timing, sensitivity, and throwing to a position of advantage is key in what we do.  When I watch grapplers in general, even in the big MMA shows, it is the minute middle ground that seems lacking.  Those moments between throw and ground which set up a superior ground position.  The moments between position and submission. All too often it seems people prematurely consider a throw complete when the guy hits the mat.  For my money, the throw is not done until a dominant ground position of control is established.  Of course, this applies to sport arenas where rolling around on the ground is favorable. On the street, I will throw you and hit the road or hit the next guy (laughing)! 

This lack of attentiveness also applies to the middle ground between strike and throw.  Strikes (if you plan to go to the ground) don't stop after the first point of contact. They should continue right on into the takedown.  We can even extrapolate this principle to the middle ground between the initial stare-down and strike. It is kind of like looking at human anatomy.  We are not made up of separate pieces of tissue: heart, lungs, skin, bones, veins, muscles, etc. All our tissues are woven into one another by other connective tissues. We are one single living system.  This is how fighting should be strikes, throws, groundwork and submissions should all be woven together into one fluid living system. Many people are missing the connective tissue in their game.  There's some theory for you (laughing)! 


SK:  My view on physical conditioning depends on why you are training in the first place. If you are training to compete, conditioning is critical. It is what will put you over the edge of your opponent.  It is your gas tank and you need to keep it on full.  If you are training for self-defense, it is less important.  For self-defense you don't need to go 12 rounds - 12 minutes will do fine. For both, it is mental conditioning that is top of the totem pole.  Your mind must be ready to improvise and go with the flow. If you can't adjust and lose your attachments to how you believe a fight should progress, you've lost before you started.


SK:  This is actually the first public announcement about the film so, I am pretty excited.  The documentary came out of disappointment with The Ultimate Fighter TV show. Rather, it came out of disappointment with how the show turned out as opposed to what we (my co-producers) hoped it would be.  The show is great but, not what we had hoped for.  We really wanted to see the training process in action. What does it take to turn pro? What do people sacrifice in their lives? How does one get to the point of even being considered for TUF? This was not there. Too much drama, too little training, too little "reality". And the guys were just too far along the training path for the average martial artists to relate to.  They were all pro already.  I suppose the drama of reality TV would override any real documentarian approach to this subject. 

In any event, we were working on a project with our sponsor EEnyc tracking the journey of one of my students, Scott "The Tin Man" Shinick, along his path from amateur to pro MMA fighter.  The project is called Keep Your Hands Up (TM) (can soon be viewed at "http://www.keepyourhandsup.com" The website is essentially a video, pictorial, and daily written log of his training and life struggles with blogs for inquiries to Scott, myself, and Peter Zaslow, our boxing coach.  We want to highlight what it takes for an average guy to turn pro - win or lose. 

Around the same time I got a call form a casting agent friend of mine that Buena Vista Productions was looking for reality show ideas. Did we have any we wanted to pitch?  Of course we did!!  We put a 5 minute pilot episode together with the help of EEnyc, all the footage we had been shooting for the Keep Your Hands Up project, and booked a date for our pitch.  The show (now film) would be called Round One (TM).  The meeting with Buena Vista went extremely well but, we realized that reality TV was not the right avenue for us. And while they were interested in the idea for a show and were willing to work with us on making the needed modifications, we all agreed that a documentary might be more appropriate.  We found that the demands to create "drama" for a "reality" show was more than we wanted to deal with and not appropriate for the goals of our project.

After that first meeting, we met with some other parties and finally nailed down our director, Greg Alkalay of Viacom.  With the support of Greg, EEnyc, and Severe Media Solutions, we are on our way. Filming has begun and it has been real exciting.  Though it is a bit strange having the cameras around. Scott's MMA debut will be on December 10th at Sportfighting. Brian Cimins, Sportfighting's promoter has been very supportive in allowing us some filming rights at the show.  So everyone get out to Hoboken and root for Combat Sambo!  Regarding casting, whoever we encounter on Scott Shinick's journey is in the cast.  It is a documentary after all.


SK: This is the biggest news to hit the Sambo world in a while.  As an answer to this question I will provide you with portions of our official statement on the matter:

"Let me begin by stating that I feel this new move by FILA may possibly bring needed bridge building to our greatly fractured martial art.  However, I fear it is too premature for the American Sambo Association to offer [FILA] a statement of allegiance - or lack there of.  At this time, details regarding FILA’s plans for sport sambo, as well as their yet un-named domestic governing body, remain very vague and unclear.  Our association’s position is that for the martial art of sambo to grow and flourish in the United States, all of our domestic sambo organizations must provide mutual support and reciprocal recognition." 

"As per discussion with our officers, the American Sambo Association will acknowledge FILA’s sanctioning of sport sambo.  Additionally, we will offer our cooperative efforts to whatever body FILA sees fit to name as it’s US affiliate. We do not wish to hold this position." 

"Please note however, that our support and acknowledgement of FILA and it’s US delegate will only be tendered to the extent that dissolution or denouncement of other domestic and international sambo organizations is not required by FILA or it’s US delegate.  It is our firm belief and founding principle that only through mutual acceptance, acknowledgement, and inter-organizational efforts will our martial art prosper.  To this end, the American Sambo Association will promote and support FILA and it’s US delegate’s events and activities as we do with all existing sambo organizations - equally. Our organization aims to be non-partisan and will not support any one organization to the exclusion of another." 


SK:  I really feel that this will be Sambo's decade. All the pieces are in place. It is my hope that we will see a tremendous growth of the art in the US - without sacrifice of Sambo's martial foundations. it is important that people realize that Sambo is more than just wrestling, it is a martial art complete in all aspects.  The shattering of the image of Sambo as strictly a grappling art would be a great thing to achieve in the next 10 years. 


Publication Date: January, 2006