Interview with Stephen Koepfer
Co-founder of the American Sambo Association
Chief instructor of New York Combat Sambo

SK:  Well, I have been involved in martial arts since childhood. I started with Shotokan as a child and later studied Tae Kwon Do, submission wrestling, and San Shou. In 1999, after nearly 6 years training and competing in San Shou and grappling I felt the need to move on and try something different.

Around that time a friend told me about a Russian coach, Alexander Barakov, who had started teaching at a local school. According to my friend, I would not regret checking out his Combat Sambo class. At that time all I knew about Sambo was that Oleg Taktarov from the UFC had trained in it. By that time I had already taken seminars with Oleg and Gokor Chivichian; finding their approach very appealing. That was about the extent of my Sambo experience. In any event, in early 1999, I went down to watch a Sambo class under the man would become my coach, friend and most influential teacher I have trained with.

Alexander Barakov, or Alex as he preferred to be called by his students, is an incredible and enigmatic man. He embodies everything a true martial artist should be...humble, calm, compassionate, creative, intelligent, and of course, he is a great fighter with great character. I recall my first training session with him. I walked into the school feeling pretty tough and experienced. I guess my ego was too big at the time. I remember during that class Alex made an announcement to the group (it was small group of 3 or 4 at that time) that I was some experienced fighter and that he and I would spar a bit in a friendly way. Well, it was after this 60 year old man wiped the mat with me that I knew I should lose the ego and train with him!

From that point on, Combat Sambo became a daily regimen for me - it still is. It has really given me the foundation from which to excel and bring all my prior training to a meaningful place. We never trained Sport Sambo. It was always Combat Sambo. As former military, that is all Alex really cared about. In 2003 Alex moved back to St. Petersburg, Russia and I took over running the New York Combat Sambo program. Since that time the program has evolved quite a bit. We have about 70 students now. I am very proud of the school and my students. I am so thankful for what Alex gave me. I still talk to him regularly and miss him tremendously.

SK:  Sport sambo is the original competitive version of the art. The sport version was officially established in 1938, about twenty years after the beginnings of the hand-to-hand system it was based on. The original hand-to-hand system was referred to as SAMBO - an acronym for "SAMozashita Bez Oruzhiya" or "Self Defense Without Weapons". Later the original system began to be referred to as combat sambo to differentiate it from the new sport version. Over the years, for many reasons the sport rules have evolved. Currently, sport sambo rules generally consist of throws, limited ground time, and non-twisting submissions of the arms, hips, and legs. No chokes are permitted though, they were permitted prior to WWII. Points are awarded for wrestling style hold-downs and according to quality of throw. Similar to judo's ippon, a sport sambo match can end by "Total Victory" if one player remains standing after throwing his opponent on his back.

The term "Combat Sambo", aside from the system's name, can also refer to the new sport version of sambo which is similar to MMA. It allows strikes, throws, and submissions. The first combat sambo world championships was held in 2000. Rules have evolved every year and no set has been formalized at this point in time.

Here in the US, we (the American Sambo Association) has launched "Freestyle Sambo (TM)". It is a grappling only set of rules which allows for chokes and other techniques not permitted in traditional sport sambo. We did this to encourage more American grapplers to compete in sambo. So far, there has been very positive feedback about our rules and events. We have had players from Judo, JuJitsu, and other systems competing in our events.

SK: Yes, same thing. I find that the Japanese mainly use the translation "commando" and opposed to "combat". SK:  Alex Barakov and I started the association because we wanted an apolitical group that would support the art and it's practitioners in a way that honored the athletes and system. We wanted to stay clear of the politics that afflict the Sambo community and did not want to be an "exclusive club". Basically, if you love Sambo you can be part of a group who shares the same love. We did, and still don't, strive to be a "governing body" per se. We want to be more of a professional guild. We don't offer ranks, curriculum, distance training, or anything like the certification programs one sees in the host or organizations out there. We believe that these things can foster elitist attitudes, can weaken the art, and can further divide our already fractured community. Of course we do offer seminars but, they only lead to further education of the attendees. We offer tournaments but, they are not exclusive to ASA members. We definitely help our members promote themselves. We honor all the Sambo groups out there and will work with any of them - as long as we feel it is in the best interests of the athletes and art.

Since our founding in 2003, we have grown quite a bit. We have members in twelve states and three countries outside the United States. We have delivered on many of the promises made when we founded the association. By this I mean DVD production, creating a monthly newsletter, promoting tournaments, hosting charity fundraisers, offering seminars, etc. In the end however, I really consider these secondary to the more important goal of cross-organizational projects and promoting sambo.

One thing I feel most proud of is how we have helped put sambo back on the map in the United States. Of course this was not a unilateral effort and I don't mean this in an arrogant way because sambo has always been on the map - it was just a bit smudged and hiding due to old political baggage. Folks like Oleg Taktarov, Andrei Arlovski, and Fedor Emilianenko help promote the sport tremendously but, they are so outside the proximity of helping everyday folks in the US get more info about sambo. Inasmuch, we have endeavored to collaborate with other non-sambo martial arts groups such as the United States Kick Boxing Association, Mas Oyama Karate, the Garden State Karate Games, Grappler's Quest, and others. We have also written for Grappling and Bodyguard magazines and I keep a regular presence on the main on-line forums like MMA.TV and Sherdog. We co-sponsor the Battle of Brooklyn fight cards with showcase Freestyle Sambo(TM), Muay Thai, and San Da on the same card at world famous Gleason's Gym. Most recently we did a sambo demonstration at the Battle at the Boardwalk in Atlantic City. Efforts like these are critical if we are to get the word out about sambo. We have tried to put sambo in places where we can build new interested audiences.

The future is very bright and I think 2006 will be big for sambo and the ASA. We just launched our new website (www.ussambo.com) and our new national ranking system, which we hope will attract more competitors to our events. One very exciting development is our discussions with the Pennsylvania and New Jersey athletic commissions regarding the sanctioning of amateur combat sambo. We hope to have our first combat sambo tournament in June if all goes well. Importantly, we plan on holding our first west coast tournament in Seattle this summer. There are also other projects in the works including new DVDs, more magazine articles, and many more seminars. We still have to decide who will be the recipient organization for this year's fundraiser. SK:  Yes, I knew of the bad politics when Alex and I began to create the American Sambo Association but, I had no idea how deeply damaged the sport was in this country.  As a combat sambo guy, I did not really get involved in sport sambo scene until I opened my own school and began promoting our Association.  However, as ugly as things have gotten during the past two years, there are definite positive signs as well. There have been many more competition opportunities for US sambo players in the last two years - both freestyle and sport. This is a positive sign.  I have worked very hard to get freestyle sambo events included in non-grappling events and shows in order to get the word out about our sport.  However, there is still a long way to go.  I can only speak for myself in that I have traveled, as you know, to as many sambo events as possible to help out and make it clear that sambo should be an open sport without political borders. Maybe this is naive but, I have been openly welcomed at AASF, USSA, and most recently, USASU events.  Unfortunately, at most of these event, political boundaries were still very visible and turn-out was very low. I encourage everyone to roll in any event that they can - regardless of who organizes it.  It is my hope that these groups can put aside their baggage and work together. The fact that the USSA and ASA are working together for the Unity Classic provides a model for this. It shows that groups can work together without sacrificing their individual identities.  Joint ventures are the only way support our sport and athletes. SK:  Of course! It is the mother land (laughing). The sport has declined a bit due to politics and other factors but, the success of guys like Fedor Emilianenko have really rekindled an interest in sambo in Russia. In Russia, many sport sambo players are also judo players.

SK:  This is not exactly accurate. Yes, Arlovski has won only 3 of his 9 victories via submission. However, Fedor has won 10 of his 23 victories via submission. Only 6 of his victories have been via TKO/KO; the rest being judges' decisions. However, you are correct in that Fedor does set up his submissions or gain judges favor with incredible striking. It is a very common misconception that sambists don't train in strikes, or chokes for that matter. People in the US, who are relatively ignorant about the art, base their judgments on what they know about the sport rules. However, many sambo players do train both chokes and strikes - particularly if they are military, police, or judo players. Arlovski learned sambo in the police academy and surely they used strikes there. Fedor is clearly no stranger to striking. In fact, his "looping and circular" style of striking is not uncommon in Eastern Europe and former soviet regions. My coach always taught this type of striking as well as chokes. Most sambo coaches I know teach striking and chokes - unless they are strict sport guys. This is not to say that Arlovski and Fedor's cross training has not contributed to their success - I am sure it has. At this point they are not "pure" sambo guys even though their foundations lie in sambo and they may pledge allegiance to sambo. I think that nobody in MMA today is "pure" anything. It is all about cross-training - which ironically is very much in the spirit of sambo training.

SK: Well, I would lie if I said ankle and knee locks were not dangerous and I am very careful about teaching them and allowing their use by new players in sparring. But, chokes and arm locks are also dangerous. Strikes are dangerous. Throws are dangerous. Everything we do can be dangerous! I have a student whose neck was broken a few years ago in a BJJ school by a choke attempt from another beginner student.

With leg locks, I think it comes down to rules, history, and comfort level. If the rules don't allow them like beginner BJJ and judo, there is no need to train them. Of course people who don't practice leg locks from day one will think they are more dangerous, it is what they are taught and learn as they train. They have been sheltered from them. If people trained leg locks from the beginning, as they do other submissions, they would gain control, knowledge, and respect for them.

I have also heard people say that leg locks, particularly of the knee and ankle, should not be taught to beginners because new players don't have the control to apply them gently. To this I suggest that it is not the fault of the new person that he or she has lack of control. In my experience, most (not all) injuries happen due to lack of supervision from the referee, coach, or teacher. How many times have we been to large scale grappling events and seen unqualified referees who are to busy watching other matches instead of the one they are running? How many times have we seen classes where tons of people are free grappling in a tight space with little attention paid by the instructor? Scenarios like these are a primary cause of grappling injuries in my humble opinion. With proper supervision, guidance, and refereeing, students should not be hurting each other. If one of my students gets injured, I take it very personally. I don't place the blame on them. The fault is mine.

I would also like to comment on the issue of training with wrestling shoes. I have often heard people say that one should not train with shoes because it makes ankle locks easier as there is no sweat factor and feet are easy to grab. I disagree completely. I suggest that training with shoes actually makes one's leg lock defense better because feet are easier to grab. Think of shoes as a gi for your feet. Everyone knows that grappling with a gi is much more difficult and technical because of the lack of sweat and increase in handles and techniques one must defend against. People still train with gis because it is practical and makes one more technical in their game. Shoes are the same. Your game will get much more technical because your defense must be much better.
SK: I think the growth of MMA has been integral to the popularization of sambo in the US so far. Wrestling, which has cross-pollinated with sambo for decades in the US, has not done for sambo what MMA has done. PRIDE just signed three new sambo players from the 2005 World Combat Sambo Championships. This will continue to put sambo in the forefront of MMA. The UFC will help less as it does not really seek out high level international fighters. However, as MMA grows here in the US, sambo will certainly get more exposure and become recognized as a viable art to train in. Take Japan for example. Sambo has been there for years because of shows like Rings and King of Pancrase. Vol Khan from Rings is a combat sambo guy. Imanari, Sakurai, and Gomi have trained sambo - not exclusively, but they have trained it. Kazuhisa Watanabe of the Japanese national sambo team comes from Kiguchi Dojo - where Gomi and Sakurai are from. Masashi Yoshizawa, the Japan Sambo Federation's co-director and national team captain, is also a member of team SK Absolute. He has actually coached guys in the Japanese pro BJJ circuit. I have been lucky enough to train with both of these guys. Izuru Takeuchi of the Japanese national sambo team is #1 ranked in King of Pancrase and an ADCC competitor. Anyway, my point is that these are examples of how sambo has worked its way into the MMA scene in Japan. I think the same will happen in the US eventually. The next 5 years will be for sambo what the early 90's was for BJJ.


Published March 1, 2006